NAS/IOM Briefing March 10, 2008 - Committee On Making Best Use of the Agent Orange Exposure Reconstruction Model
Once again, we have the Veteran’s and his or her family’s worst enemy outside of the Executive Branch controlled Veterans Affairs, the Institute of Medicine trying to rear end the Vietnam Veteran again and destroy the toxic chemical legacy of that war. Nothing but paid medical guns and assassins.
For whatever it is worth there are very few in this issue that I believe have any integrity at all including most of the government and especially the IOM.
When Veterans Mike Eckstein or Paul Sutton speaks out, I listen.
My comments, in addition to Mike’s, will be red letters even though I was not able to attend this so called meeting. Do not confuse my venomous remarks with Mike’s analysis of the meeting. As Bill Cosby said once, I am sick and tired and tired and sick and that about sums it up for me. I am tired of all the lies, the political crap at the VA, the arrogance of the fellow in the wheel chair that runs the VA as our Secretaries cannot stand the heat of the fire and his VA has a duty to the taxpayer Bull Shit, etc. If anything, his philosophy should be the entire nation has a duty to the Veterans of this nation who are also taxpayers and not to be treated as third class citizens. Instead, our government pays the VA and its employees to do such a poor job that in any commercial outfit they would be out of business; just as our Veterans Affairs should be and about 95% of the congress who allows this treatment to go on.
From Mike Eckstein:
Hi all:
I attended the Briefing held at the NAS offices at the Keck Center on 5th Street, NW in Washington, D.C. Lois Jeollenbeck, Sr. Program Officer at the NAS/IOM coordinated this briefing. Dr. David A. Savitz, Chair of the Committee, gave the briefing on the Exposure Model.
There were representatives from VVA/National, VVA/NJ State Council/Agent Orange/Dioxin Committee (me), Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, Veteran Advocate, and “member of everything“ (Paul Sutton) and one other Veteran Advocate who attended the briefing. A total of only seven non-NAS/IOM persons attended. We were given copies of the PREPUBLICATION COPY – UNCORRECTED PROOF of The Utility of Proximity-Based Herbicide Exposure Assessment in Epidemiological Studies of Vietnam Veterans.
I have been against the “Exposure Model” concept when I first heard about it during the early 1990’s. To me, it would be a vehicle for the VA to deny claims based upon a perceived notion about not being within the area and parameters of any spray mission or area that had been defoliated. It would impossible, I feel, to track all avenues of exposure and relate the degree of exposure to illnesses.
First of all the tracking of AO is bogus to begin with since there are so many dioxin like isomers that were in other militarized herbicides that were used. Second the herbicide tapes only documents the Ranch Hand spray missions and not all of those missions were documented. I could not find the Ranch Hand Missions along the DMZ documented, even though many of us witnessed the acts until Kurt Priessman another researcher got involved. He found not only the request from MACV for the spraying of the southern portion of the DMZ and the dates but also the northern portion of the DMZ. Yet, I would bet this did not show up as the Third Marine Division (Reinforced) along the DMZ being covered with this stuff in 67. Not only that but all the firebase's along the McNamara Line were a targeted Ranch Hand mission of the entire Rainbow of herbicides. Every base along QL9 was a target. A target meant that the area hit was in a 4.8-mile radius with a drift rate of at least 11.2 miles. It is no wonder the Marines showed a remarkable increase in AO associated disorders early on, which the government then blamed the operational difference of the Marines versus Army as to the reason why.
Then we have the Department of Defense lies. Can we even believe the herbicide tapes as gospel? It is very doubtful. Maybe an indicator but certainly nothing to hold ones hat on some kind of dose rate. Although I am sure, the VA and the assassins at the IOM will try and do just that.
Then we have the individual tank spraying, truck spraying, and helicopter spraying that are not even recorded. In fact, most of the combat guys that were detailed to spray this government toxic swill on the perimeters, with no training in application or mixing, are already dead or quadriplegics.
From the very beginning, the Department of Defense has lied and lied some more about where and when they used these toxic herbicide swills. Not until we had some descent congressmen like Lane Evans did they finally have to admit, slowly of course, the lies and just some of the actual usages of these genetic damming toxic swill around the world, including stateside. Including the testing of our own Veterans!
The following were questions and comments posed by me during the question/answer period after Dr. Savitz held an approximate 25-minute overview of the Committee’s Report. We only had a bit more than 30 minutes for a question/answer period. It was impossible to have all of our issues stated in that short period of time. My questions and statements were in response to materials contained in the Report and to Dr. Savitz’ briefing:
SUMMARY SECTION:
PAGE X – Portion of a paragraph, “We faced a number of issues, including what it would mean if the more refined research using this model provided results that did not support compensation decisions already made.”
My statement – “Typical of the always negative approach towards Vietnam Veterans.”
Lets get real here folks - the question should have been what if we find out there are many many things that should have been associated and thanks to the IOM assassins our Veterans died with no warning, no compensations, no service connection, and no idea they gave their life for their country. The odds of finding something that should not be associated is so minuscule this statement should have been taken, as this is our task to prove some are not really associated to the herbicides and to make the Veterans family pay the money back as per verbal directive from the VA.
PAGE 1 – Paragraph 1, sentence 1, “In the past studies evaluating whether health problems experienced by Vietnam veterans might be linked to wartime use of Agent orange or other herbicides, a fundamental challenge has been the lack of information about the veterans’ level of exposure to these herbicides”.
My statement – “Low level of exposure is sufficient to cause illnesses. If you were there, you were exposed.”
Level of exposures by the NAS own recent publication show that at “sub toxic levels” of ten to fifty nanomolar, TCDD is sufficient to cause mitochondrial dysfunction and induce the cellular signaling cascade.
PAGE 1 – Paragraph 2, sentence 1, “The committee concluded that the model’s approach of using an exposure surrogate based on an individuals’ or military units’ proximity in space and time to herbicide spray paths in a reasonable one”.
My statement – “No, it is not. There are a multitude of reasons why an individual might be exposed. An “individuals’ or military units’ proximity in space and time to herbicide spray paths” cannot be used to determine exposure. Even combined with certain other parameters of exposure, it still is not enough to base a finding of exposure.”
In addition, one must take into account geographical environment, weather patterns, availability of water for drinking, bathing, cooking, and the half-life of those conditions; which should tell everyone this is nothing but another VA/IOM witch hunt and stalling tactic.
PAGE 3, STUDY CHARGE – Paragraph 1, sentence 1, “The Committee on Making Best Use of the Agent Orange Exposure Reconstruction Model was convened in 2007 to advise VA on the best ways to employ the herbicide exposure assessment model in the evaluation of the long-term health effects of veterans’ wartime exposure to herbicides”.
My statement – “The VA will use anything negative contained in this report as a reason to deny claims. This model does not allow Vietnam veterans the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.”
PAGE 8, EPIDEMIOLOGIC STUDIES USING THE HERBICIDE EXPOSURE ASSESSMENT MODEL– Paragraph 7, Portion of sentence 2, “the model’s value is not disproved because the levels of exposure may be lower than would cause adverse health effects or the study’s power may be insufficient to address the question adequately”.
My question – “How do you know at what level of exposure would be too low to cause adverse health effects?”
As above the EPA article states that Level of exposures by the NAS own recent publication show that at “sub toxic levels” of ten to fifty nanomolar, TCDD is sufficient to cause mitochondrial dysfunction and induce the signaling cascade.
In fact, since 1995, our own EPA labs as well as other independent labs have demonstrated that dioxin has an almost immediate impact upon ingestion. Tyrosine kinase activity is activated minutes after dioxin(s) exposure. You have more protein synthesis or less protein synthesis. This is down at the very building block of cellular creation of amino proteins. It is also found that this dioxin activity is persistent in humans and not short lived.
These phosphorylation cellular events are very tightly regulated in our body as one can imagine. Yet, dioxin just screws over this control and you get who knows what? Certainly not the very few things the VA/IOM has indicated in just a few cancers.
If the human cellular process is messed up then how does one, calculate what will develop much less what level it took or at what time the clinical manifestations will appear; other than “increased risk of incidence” which we have had for decades now!
We know for a fact the immune system is totally hosed. Moreover, if the immune system is screwed at cellular level then certainly “any cancer is possible” as well as about 75 different autoimmune disorders or variants of those disorders. I would also ask the assassins at the IOM that is this just not the same as what some viruses do to our bodies in cancers and immune system dysfunction. Just instead, substitute dioxin for virus. All of this adds up to our own government altering protein transcription and gene expression. Except while viruses are noted for causing cancers and autoimmune conditions they do not seemed to be noted for being clastogenic creating chromosome damages.
How can Veterans and their families believe anything the IOM puts out when they and the VA agree that Cancer X is associated but the medical books description of Disorder Y is denied? Even when the medical books describe Disorder Y as a low grade X that for some reason the cellular maturation to Cancer X has stopped. Yet, disorder Y can be as lethal and debilitating as Cancer X. Yet, this disorder is completely denied by IOM and VA. Now we are supposed to believe that any of this proposed work would be objective and not totally subjective and biased. I do not think so.
Later, in another article, I will go into more depth on the TSH hormone issues of IOM denials and their misstated facts on Ranch Hand and Thyroid microsomal antibodies. Once again misstated facts used in denials by VA.
PAGE 8, RECOMMENDATIONS – Paragraph 1, “VA should sponsor epidemiological studies of Vietnam veterans that take into account the criteria below (Note: I did not list the criteria – Mike) regarding the appropriate characteristics of informative research on herbicide exposure and health outcomes in this population. VA should draw on the criteria as the basis for developing a request for proposals.”
My statement – “There is no need for any additional requests, studies, proposals, etc. There is substantial information relating even low levels of exposure to illnesses. Vietnam veterans’ claims should be immediately service connected without further study. To begin new studies, assessments, morbidity studies would take way too long and the Vietnam veterans population would mostly be dead by then.”
That is the whole intent is to let the Veterans die just like the government has in so many other Veterans issues, then finally admit guilt, and then say we are sorry. Sorry does not cut it any longer and neither do this congress and other prior congresses allowing this Executive Branch/DoD/VA/IOM crap to continue. As so many of our group has said it is time to get rid of all of them. We have no more to lose if we clean house and get nothing in return. Except those in office now will not make a living off of sick and disabled Veterans backs any longer.
PAGE 9, RECOMMENDATIONS – Paragraph 2, “In support of the recommended epidemiological studies, VA should work with the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) to:
· Facilitate health research uses of military records that are subject to access barriers arising from privacy laws, and
· Arrange for assistance from DoD and NARA staff with appropriate expertise to aid researchers in the location and interpretation of military records for health research uses.”
My statement – “No, just pay the claims! This is a waste of time and effort. The VA would again use it to deny claims.”
Now this suggestion by IOM is comical at best. The CDC, another Executive Branch Agency, when it sold its soul to the White House said what is being proposed here was impossible. Therefore a study that had been on-going for three years could in fact not be done. In fact, shortly after that the CDC then came out and said a study “that could not be done” proved that Veterans were not affected by exposure. Now we are going to do the same thing again and spend millions more. I think the CDC spent at least 63 million on the study before selling its scientific soul to the Reagan White House.
SECTION 3 – ASSESSMENT OF THE MODEL AND ITS CAPACITY TO PRODUCE USEFUL EXPOSURE METRICS EVALUATION OF THE STELLMAN TEAM’S EXPOSURE OPPORTUNITY METRICS
INDIRECT EXPOSURE OPPORTUNITY, Page 39
My statement – “The Model does not effectively address the “downstream effect”. Herbicides would lie on the water and move downstream and accumulations might end up miles away from the spray area. This scenario was painted by a North Vietnamese scientist at the June 1997 NAS/IOM public hearing.”
One item not addressed is the contaminant level in herbicides manufactured by different companies. There is a degree of Dioxin contaminant in each batch of herbicides. To even remotely assess exposure, and if this Model should even have remote validity, shouldn't the contaminant level also be addressed?”
The Committee did work extremely hard in doing with all of their research into the Model. However, their thinking as scientists is extremely naive in that:
· The VA will not look at this in a positive light for the Vietnam veteran;
· The Columbia/Stellman Model cannot work since there are so many unknown factors;
· The time line is way too late for new studies;
· Vietnam veterans have endured denials, lies and deceit for too long to consider any VA sponsored herbicide studies to be fair.
There was just not enough time for us at the briefing to bring up all of our issues. You can access this Prepublication Copy – Uncorrected Proof at the National Academy of Sciences/National Academy press web site.
Lastly, these are my opinions and impressions of the Briefing.
Michael Eckstein
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Members of the 75th Spt Btn may be experiencing the effects of Agent Orange. While I do not meet the VA's current criteria, the "rare" autoimmune disorder that I've been diagnosed with suddenly appeared when I stopped taking anti-malarial drugs (the big orange pill) when I came home.
Mr. Eckstein is responsible only for the text that holds his signature, and this information was published without permission. Charles R "Richard" Johnston is solely responsible for all content on the web site "Friendly Fire America"
"Regards to All Who Serve"
